I would not use the insulated wrap. It can cause some strange moisture related issues. I would suggest eckler's part number 26229, it is what I intend to purchase.

You can also get really good rebuilt starters for much less than $120 bucks. Call around. I bought one at Auto Zone, and returned the core for more money off.

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Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

Had the same problem with my BB ...bought one of those mini starter and haven't had a problem since.

Alan

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I wouldn't use the wrap-around shield, either. It actually holds the heat in, once the starter gets hot. Make sure you have the factory heat shield on the starter, first. It's a shaped sheet metal piece that bolts onto the rear of the starter, and covers the side that is closest to the exhaust. Big blocks were notorious for having a problem when hot. Before condeming the starter, I'd suggest replacing the solenoid. It is what actually creates the no-start condition, 90% of the time. They are only about $15-20. But be sure you have the metal type heat shield on the starter, whether you replace the starter or not. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end. You could also wire up a remote solenoid, under the hood, that would eliminate this problem 100%. This set-up uses a "brand 'F'" starter solenoid, and I've NEVER seen a big block fail to start with it(for this problem, anyway!). If you want to keep the car 100% correct, this wouldn't do, but it is another way to fix it for good.

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Well, more than likely it is the solenoid failing under the heat, however, I once had similar problems years ago with the 76 vett, cruise around and stop somewhere, with nothing when trying to start up again.  I could "cross" the solenoid and turn it over, turned out, it was the neutral/safety switch.  When it got hot, the contacts would not mate(after getting a new one, i took the old one apart to take a peek under its hood,  was tarnished up pretty bad, and the dielectric grease in it was kinda nasty too, probably from being baked over 20 years)... neither in park or in nuetral(its an automatic)..but letting it sit for a little while it would come back to life...  sooo not sure which tranny you have.  Just throwing out a possibility there, slim possibility,  but something to think about. 

Good luck

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StingrayJim
NCM Lifetime Member #1936

Stingray's '76���������������������������� StingrayJr's '78���������������������������Lil Red '94

(click each one to see a bigger version)

The 76 corvette I just purchased had a starter problem according to

the previous owner. he went thru 3 starters caused by the heat from the headers after they were installed. Solved problem also by

installing a heat shield on the starter

 

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(click to see a larger version)

In my experience of watching older brothers and their friends work on cars when I was younger (since I have very little mechanical ability of my own), they always did starter work from underneath.

Buy a creeper (if you don't already have one), crack the doors open a bit, release the tension on the T-tops (if you have them), jack that puppy up in the air and slide on under there.  Just remember, starters are heavy!

Good luck!

Sorry........it has to be done from underneath. Make sure you have good jackstands to put under the car to keep it from falling on top of you if something bad happens . Disconnect the batt. before pulling the starter off, too. Good luck, we're all pulling for you!

ps...If you pull the starter off to do this, I would highly recommend you replace the solenoid while you're there. Adams' Apple38485.2018171296

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

JEG'S Mini Starters

View larger image Product images may differ from actual product appearance. Mini Starter With Extra Power! Hitachi Style Starters 1.9-HP Hitachi style-motor with 3.7:1 gear ratio, full ball bearings, 12 lbs. Power to crank up to 13:1 compression ratio engines. 90 Amp draw. Heavy Duty Hitachi Starter Heavy duty Long Body Hitachi Style 2.0kw starter. It has the same features as our 555-10021, such as a 3.7:1 gear ratio and full ball bearings, but with more power to crank over the monster 16:1 compression engines. It will clear all oversized kick-out oil pans, small and big block Chevy's with inline bolt patterns. A lightweight starter weighing only 12lbs and designed for 153 and 168 tooth flywheels. Mounting hardware and shims included. Choice of chrome or natural/black finish. Aluminum adapter with 6 adjustable mounting positions. Shims & bolts included. The mini starter is smaller & usually used to start high compression engines, but stands up to the heat better & because of the smaller size allows for better air flow. Most places have them I just used Jegs as an example, but I did install this one on my car...no more heat problems...as I had the same problem you're experiencing Alan

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[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]I wouldn't use the wrap-around shield, either. It actually holds the heat in, once the starter gets hot. Make sure you have the factory heat shield on the starter, first. It's a shaped sheet metal piece that bolts onto the rear of the starter, and covers the side that is closest to the exhaust. Big blocks were notorious for having a problem when hot. Before condeming the starter, I'd suggest replacing the solenoid. It is what actually creates the no-start condition, 90% of the time. They are only about $15-20. But be sure you have the metal type heat shield on the starter, whether you replace the starter or not. It will save you a lot of headaches in the end. You could also wire up a remote solenoid, under the hood, that would eliminate this problem 100%. This set-up uses a "brand 'F'" starter solenoid, and I've NEVER seen a big block fail to start with it(for this problem, anyway!). If you want to keep the car 100% correct, this wouldn't do, but it is another way to fix it for good. [/QUOTE]

Can anyone give some more information on the factory heat shield? I found the two pieces (I think) in a box from the previous owner but I don't know how they fit back in the correct position. One is a curved piece the holes for mounting, and the other is a flat piece with a bend in it. Anyone know? Thanks!

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Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

I just found the part that I have in my box. Here is a picture of it on ebay. This is the part that I trying to figure out how it attaches to the starter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ;category=10076&item=4550159276&rd=1&ssPageName= WDVW

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Glenn's Bright Blue 75 T-Top
L48, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust

The voltages should be the same with the original style or the mini starter.

Crossing the solenoid means jumping between the battery cable connector and the small solenoid activation terminal.  This will cause the starter to operate.  Just the same as supplying power to the small terminal with the purple wire.  When you turn the key, you supply power to the purple wire.

kstyer38488.716712963

walk into the parts department of your local Chevy dealer and ask for
a Selinoid spring part number (AcDelco) 1958679....  shopuld cost you about 5 bucks...

Then Just pull the original spring out of your starter and insert the new spring... END OF PROBLEM....    
Honest I have been running this spring in my 72 76 & 79  for about 10 years now and never had the problem once since I replaced the spring...
my 72 and 79 and my 68 BB Chevelle all had the hot start problem UNTIL I changed out the spring... (looks and feels like the original..but it is weaker...hence required much less elecrticity to compress ...

One think I do know however....IF I got stuck like at a friends house I would just ask for a large glass of water...walk out to the car and pour it over the starter.....usually worked...if not I just used a second glass of water... I think 3 glasses is the most it ever took to cool down the started enough so the engine would fire up...

BTW...the Spring number came from a Sprint Car "Crew Cheif" at our local race track... SHE...was good looking and could turn a mean wrench...  honestly  SHE knew her cars....

Bob Griffiths

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Bob
64,72 & 98 Corvette Ragtops
76 & 79 & qa 88 ANC Corvette Coupes

Click on any image for larger view!

Now I'm embarrased!    I forgot all about that spring.  Yes, it does help quite a lot.   

It's been a lot of years from the last time I heard about that, or installed one.

Dear 74-454     You seem to be adding to the myth that starts out
stating that the first thing you need to do when working on a Corvette
is to disassemble the entire car... LOL... It does seem that way alot I will admit BUT !!!!!

You have a big block...and none of my Corvettes are BB's... but I do have headers ...and to be honest I  do not see why you would have to remove them to get to the starter...that would be a major pain in the rear...    And I have NEVER taken the wheel off to gain space..it is no where close to where you will be laying on your back...

That replacement solenoid may not help....the spring may be the same strenght as the original... but for 12 bucks I most likely would have
opened my wallet also...

I can replace the solenoid spring in maybe 30 minutes on any of my Corvettes...from the time I walked out the back door of the house till I
walked back into the house...AND I AM NOT FAST....   If the headers
present "any" problem I would go the route of mounting a remote selenoid...

Strange but this problem could have been solved and completely eleminated by GM 40 years ago....wonder why they mounted it on the starter?  must save money ...Ford had a better idea...

Lots of luck...

Bob


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Bob
64,72 & 98 Corvette Ragtops
76 & 79 & qa 88 ANC Corvette Coupes

Click on any image for larger view!

OH NO..... I think I still have one more of those springs in the garage
but honestly I can not tell them apart from the originals...

This being Friday.... that means I can not talk to my parts manager and find out what he has to say... A quick look on the internet also showed no results ... The part was located in the GM parts book under
                  Springs Group # 2
         &nbs p;        Part number 1958679 

     Guess I will have to have my local dealer do a search of other dealers andd see if he can get me another spare...


I can see why they discontinued it...had to be a hot selling item..lol
But when something works and has proven it works over an extended period of time...seems somebody should make a replacement..

Lots of Luck...

Bob Griffiths
.


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Bob
64,72 & 98 Corvette Ragtops
76 & 79 & qa 88 ANC Corvette Coupes

Click on any image for larger view!

A remote solenoid won't help you if the solenoid on the starter won't work.  You still need to engage the starter. 

Thees ees true, BUT......It does require that the solenoid be in working condition. What you have to do is:
Take the purple wire (12v from ign switch) off of the solenoid. Make ajumper to go from the batt. term on the sol. to where you took the purple wire off. Extend the purple wire to where-ever you mount the remote sol. Then do the same with the cable from the batt. to the starter; it needs to be put on the new sol. Then run a new cable from the remote sol. down to the starter, and you're done. While it may not make sense that this would work, because you're still using the sol. on the starter, beleive me, it does work! I've used this setup on every BB drag car, drag boat, sprint car, wrecker, etc. I've ever driven, and I've never had to drown the starter to cool it off enough to start!

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

That curved piece goes on the top hole of the started motor. The long bolt that goes through the motor winding should have a stud on the end of it. you have probably seen this bolt on starters and wondered what it was for, the other end bolts to the side of the block. The flat piece with the bend in it has a hole in it and it should line up with the hole in the middle of the other piece and cover, a small sheet metal screw holds the two together and it covers the side of your starter solenoid.

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If it's not painted, Chrome it!!!

I agree it does work.  It's due to the voltage drops through the system.   I just didn't want anyone to go that way alone with a solenoid problem.  That would be frustrating.

Good description Joel. 

Congrats on finding at least part of the 'Holy grail' of Corvettedom!!
Most likely you have melted a fuse-link at the starter. Does anything work? Headlights, horn, etc., or will it just not start? If everything is dead now, you're gonna have to locate the fuse-links in the wiring about 6-8 inches up from the starter, and check to see if they are good or blown. Use a test light or a voltmeter, and test on both sides of the link(s). If you find power on the starter side, but not on the other side of the link, then that link is blown. A fuse link is a small, round 'fuse' in the wiring, covered with a soft rubbery like thing. It will be about 1-1 1/2' long, sometimes black, sometimes tan/white, always a PITA!!! They can be cut out and the remaining wires tied together just to get you down the road, but considering your luck , I would just go ahead and get new fuse-links to put back in. You can get them at most parts houses. There are a couple of the fuse links at the junction block on the driver's side fenderwell too, I think. Look and see if your car has any there, and if so, check those while you're at it. I hope you get 'er going soon, it's that time -o- year!!! Cruizin weather!! BTW......You need to determine WHY the fuse-link(s) blew, before you repeat the same thing. Check your wiring on the starter carefully(well..duh! ). You may have made a simple mistake that you will see when you check it out. Don't get too frustrated, we've ALL been there!!!

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

And if it is a fusiable link, make sure you use the EXACT same size gauge and length.  Other wise it will not be properly protected and allow something to fry, or may be over protected and blow too easily.

Check out the other post on "Starter problems", and you'll see..................
.......Some replacement solenoids have a short post for this that requires a 'spacer', and some have a long post to begin with. Supposedly, the long post is for the 'high torque' starters, due to the longer field windings
You're probably on the right track now. Hope you get it fixed!!! BUT...if you do have that 'strap' shorted, it would only cause a problem as you're trying to start it, but it wouldn't spark just from hooking up the batt., as there is no juice to that terminal until you turn the key to "start". You might still have other gremlins Adams' Apple38494.7286805556

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

You hold the compass up to the wiring harness.  When there is power flow the electrical current creates a magnetic field which deflects the compass.  No current no deflection.  More current, more deflection.  Yes it does work.  An inductive amp gauge works better.

Keep in mind, it does not show broken wires, just lack of current flow.  So no flow could mean you are before or after an open point in the circuit.  That can include the circuit just being shut off.  Other live circuits in the harness will make the compass respond as well.

Get the lastest issue (July 2005) of Car Craft.  There's an article on electrical problems on vehicles from the 60's and 70's.  The hot starter could range from high voltage drop to the soleniod overheated by the close exhaust pipe.  They suggest ( I know this is blasphemy!!!) to by-pass the GM soleniod with a Ford soleniod.  The Ford soleniod can be located anywhere on the firewall or fenderwell.  This article is a great tool to have.  I'm checking every circuit on my 70 Vette to make sure the required voltage drops are at their minimum.

[QUOTE=74-454] This is where I am lost : I wanted to verify the voltage at the starter.

I have a mini digital voltage meter. I used the negative on the ground (the ground from the starter bracket to the body) and the positive on the battery terminal (big wire on to the solenoid). My reading is zero. I didn't have anybody to turn the key .